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Abortions are not a good thing
Heart disease is not a good thing, but open heart surgery is.
Unwanted pregnancy is not a good thing, but abortions are.
Heart disease is not a good thing, but open heart surgery is.
Unwanted pregnancy is not a good thing, but abortions are.
That is a perfectly valid way to look at it.
This is why I remain torn about abortion. I suppose it's the "lesser of two evils". Better is not getting pregnant in the first place. I may be a conservative Christian, but I'll make sure my kids know how to use a condom, just in case they ever need it.
Unwanted pregnancy is symptomatic of poverty, and poverty is a bad thing.
The next time you see one of your conservative christian friends who get their chuckles out of shooting doctors... tell them how 'torn' you are.
See above. "Open Heart Surgery" is also the lesser of two evils, but I'm pretty damned opposed to people who view gluttony as a sin trying to get it banned.
I'll make sure my kids know how to use a condom
And the pill. And how to shop for other alternatives. And how to shop for a partner. And to check for STDs between partners. And, and, and.... That's the biggest problem with conservatism these days. You can't prohibit the passing of information and the natural consequences of ignorance and call yourself anything other than a big fat Asshole.
I'll make sure my kids know how to use a condom
And the pill. And how to shop for other alternatives. And how to shop for a partner. And to check for STDs between partners. And, and, and.... That's the biggest problem with conservatism these days. You can't prohibit the passing of information and the natural consequences of ignorance and call yourself anything other than a big fat Asshole.
Well, obviously that's a stupid and wrong thing to do. I understand the motivations behind shooting abortion doctors (these people usually view them as mass murderers), but it's still stupid and criminal.
If they were mass murderers, you'd have more than a few clusters of cells to worry about.
No sympathy here.
No sympathy here.
Pill and other methods of hormonal BC only cover one piece of the issue, and are only for women. It's useful for a host of other reasons, anyway, if my daughters have menstrual symptoms anything like my own.
"shop for a partner"? You're referring to things that I don't know about. My experiences are the product of the kind of ignorance you're talking about.
I've talked with![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-userinfo.gif)
nightskyre about it - my biggest concern is that my kids will feel like it's abstinence-or-nothing - so if you start having sex, you're already doomed, why stop? I do know, from experience, that once you've started having sex, it is extremely hard to pull back into the abstinence mindset. Abstinence would be preferable, but I'm not going to trust my kids to have more willpower than either of their parents did. I want to make sure they understand more of the non-tangible consequences of being sexually active, though - not just STDs and pregnancy, but how it changes emotions, relationships, and attitudes. Not sure how well I'll be able to communicate that, but I'll try.
Mostly, I've determined not to be like my parents, who, even after they realized I was having sex, did not talk to me about the risks I was facing (they were pretty distracted by early divorce proceedings at the time, so I'll cut them a little slack). I got the bare-bones sex talk from them when I was 11 (and in my first sex-ed class - thankfully at a Christian school, because I literally did not KNOW what the physical act of sex was)... and after that, the only times either has mentioned sex is when talking about their respective extra-marital affairs.
"shop for a partner"? You're referring to things that I don't know about. My experiences are the product of the kind of ignorance you're talking about.
I've talked with
nightskyre about it - my biggest concern is that my kids will feel like it's abstinence-or-nothing - so if you start having sex, you're already doomed, why stop? I do know, from experience, that once you've started having sex, it is extremely hard to pull back into the abstinence mindset. Abstinence would be preferable, but I'm not going to trust my kids to have more willpower than either of their parents did. I want to make sure they understand more of the non-tangible consequences of being sexually active, though - not just STDs and pregnancy, but how it changes emotions, relationships, and attitudes. Not sure how well I'll be able to communicate that, but I'll try.Mostly, I've determined not to be like my parents, who, even after they realized I was having sex, did not talk to me about the risks I was facing (they were pretty distracted by early divorce proceedings at the time, so I'll cut them a little slack). I got the bare-bones sex talk from them when I was 11 (and in my first sex-ed class - thankfully at a Christian school, because I literally did not KNOW what the physical act of sex was)... and after that, the only times either has mentioned sex is when talking about their respective extra-marital affairs.
Also, even though Jesus basically said that all sins are equally bad (in the eyes of God), we as humans are prone to viewing certain actions as "worse" than others. (Most) Christians view abortion as murder, and, as such, is "worse" than sins that merely affect yourself (gluttony), or have more minor consequences (lying).
I want to make sure they understand more of the non-tangible consequences of being sexually active, though - not just STDs and pregnancy, but how it changes emotions, relationships, and attitudes.
I wish more people of all faiths were cognizant of this. Kudos to you for having the intention of talking about this with your kids.
I wish more people of all faiths were cognizant of this. Kudos to you for having the intention of talking about this with your kids.
Well, I almost ruined my emotional/spiritual life because of my sexual activity (long story - but I never got an STD or got pregnant, the consequences in my case were all intangible)... not long after, I vowed to be open with my kids about sex, in the hopes that they won't make the same mistakes I did.
Which would be far more convincing a rationale if Christians didn't have abortions at the same rates as everyone else. What, it's murder until it's a personal inconvenience to think so?
Not to say that you, personally, would behave like this. But I don't think you can make a plea for sympathy for a moral view that doesn't make its way into practice.
Not to mention that the rates of the -consequences- of an absence of birth control/abortion/etc are higher as the rates of Christianity increase... STDs, teen pregnancies, divorces, wife-beating, etc...
It is the 'godless liberals' that actually display some morality... which is why they/we don't have to wear it on our f-cking sleeves.
I'll now preemptively shut the f- up, so etherial doesn't have to ask me to... but read the f-king numbers some time.
(See also: wide stance republicans, ted haggert, congressional page scandal, etc etc.)
It is the 'godless liberals' that actually display some morality... which is why they/we don't have to wear it on our f-cking sleeves.
I'll now preemptively shut the f- up, so etherial doesn't have to ask me to... but read the f-king numbers some time.
(See also: wide stance republicans, ted haggert, congressional page scandal, etc etc.)
Should your God exist, the inhuman expectations He places on his pets would justify any act of rebellion.
What matter a few million slaughered babies, when he killed every living thing on Earth (minus a few naked apes and 2-by-2 animals) in a fit of pique.
What matter a few million slaughered babies, when he killed every living thing on Earth (minus a few naked apes and 2-by-2 animals) in a fit of pique.
I don't think those two situations are quite as analogous as you're making them out to be, but too tired to argue...
She didn't say "sympathize". She said "understand". The logic followed, no matter how flawed, is interpretable.
That's also what I meant when I said "shop for a partner". You have to discuss and prepare for all of these things. You can't just find a pair of pants you like, they have to fit your needs.
Come back when you're rested and we'll talk about it.
Open heart surgery is not a good thing, but it's better than the alternatives.
I'm not going to trust my kids to have more willpower than either of their parents did
See, it's not about Willpower. It's about Responsibility. It's about knowing and recognizing the probable consequences, and accepting the possible ones. It's about understanding the difference between what you want and what you can handle. The most important thing about "The Sex Talk" (between partners) is that it happens at least 24 hours before sex is actually pursued. All parties need to be able to walk away from the conversation and sleep on it.
Abstinence would be preferable
The most important thing about "The Sex Talk" (from authority figures) is that it happens early and often. They need to know that you will suborn your preferences to their ability to take responsibility for their own actions. Abstinence-only fails because the parents and teachers responsible ultimately reject their duty to advise.
See, it's not about Willpower. It's about Responsibility. It's about knowing and recognizing the probable consequences, and accepting the possible ones. It's about understanding the difference between what you want and what you can handle. The most important thing about "The Sex Talk" (between partners) is that it happens at least 24 hours before sex is actually pursued. All parties need to be able to walk away from the conversation and sleep on it.
Abstinence would be preferable
The most important thing about "The Sex Talk" (from authority figures) is that it happens early and often. They need to know that you will suborn your preferences to their ability to take responsibility for their own actions. Abstinence-only fails because the parents and teachers responsible ultimately reject their duty to advise.
She understands. I lack sympathy should some pro-liver be struck dead by septic shock to the genitals.
Ah, I see we have entirely missed the point. kadath is saying precisely this. In both cases, there is a condition that can be corrected by medical intervention; the intervention has its own stresses, risks, and potential complications, but the existence and availability of said procedure is nonetheless infinitely preferable to the alternative.
And anonymous posting is for cowards. Own your words. Unless LJ randomly logged you off, because it does that.
kadath is saying precisely this. In both cases, there is a condition that can be corrected by medical intervention; the intervention has its own stresses, risks, and potential complications, but the existence and availability of said procedure is nonetheless infinitely preferable to the alternative.And anonymous posting is for cowards. Own your words. Unless LJ randomly logged you off, because it does that.
k, thnx for being understanding and patient.
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